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Birds, Dreams, and the Future of the Church

   September 10, 2026       john

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We say young people are important to the church. But do we trust them? Do we listen to them? And are we willing to let their voices change something?

Bonnie Bevers joins John for a conversation about listening to young people, creating ministry with them rather than only for them, and giving them a real voice in the life of the church. They discuss safe spaces, honest questions, intergenerational relationships, adult control, and the dreams young people carry that the church may not yet have language to understand.

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When the Church Shows Up for You

   August 20, 2026       john

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What does it mean when we say, “The church was there for me”?

Too often, we mean the pastor called, the pastor visited, or the pastor prayed. But what about the church member who brings a meal? The person who mows your lawn? The people who make a prayer shawl, pick up your groceries, help you move, sit beside you, or simply pray with the words they have?

John, Tom, and returning guest Lizzie talk about the difference between pastoral care and congregational care, and whether churches have made pastors so central to ministry that we've forgotten the gifts God has given everyone else.

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Things Pastors Think Are Helping

   August 12, 2026       john

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What if some of the things pastors do to help their churches are actually hurting them?

This week, John, Tom Lizzie, and Todd talk about pastors doing too much, trying to be the expert, hiding behind a “pastor” persona, playing it safe in the pulpit, and unintentionally teaching congregations to depend on them. It's a candid conversation about what pastors get wrong and what healthier ministry could look like.

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You Might Be Overthinking God's Will

   August 07, 2026       john

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Does God have a specific plan for every detail of your life? The person you marry, the job you take, the house you buy, and every decision along the way?

And if so…what happens when you make the wrong choice? Tom and John wrestle with what we really mean when we talk about “God’s plan.”

Plus, we celebrate 175 episodes of whatever it is we've been doing here.

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If Church Feels Meaningless, Watch This

   July 29, 2026       john

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Why do so many people say church is boring? Maybe it's the same reason soccer seems boring to someone who's never really played, cheered, or understood the game.

Whether we're talking about sports, worship, communion, or Christian community, everything changes when we understand what we're actually experiencing. If you've ever wondered why church feels meaningful to some people but empty to others, this conversation is for you.

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Friends, Faith, and Fresh Starts

   July 29, 2026       john

Starting over is exciting... until you realize you don't know where anything is. This week, we talk about transitions, ministry, friendship, and why the mission never changes even when everything else does.
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C Stands for Clergy

   July 29, 2026       john

What is the difference between learning about faith and actually living it? This week, Tom and John discuss "practical divinity."

Whether you've been to seminary, Sunday school, or neither, this episode is about turning faith from information into transformation.

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What Salamanders Know About Church Growth

   May 30, 2026       john

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What do salamanders, church growth conferences, and small-town congregations have in common?

More than you'd think.

This conversation starts with the challenges facing small churches and ends with a fascinating discussion about scientists helping mammals regenerate tissue. Along the way, we ask whether churches spend too much time focusing on what they've lost and not enough time recognizing the gifts they already possess.

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A Moving-Season Theology

   May 22, 2026       john

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This week, Tom and John talk about onboarding into new spaces of life and leadership, what it means to step into a church’s hopes and questions, and how presence matters more than pace. Along the way, we wander through weddings, retirement jokes, Amazon habits, and a growing awareness that life is happening right in front of us.

How do we stay awake to our own lives? Not just physically, but spiritually, awake to people, to conversations, to creation, and to God in the ordinary.

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Can a Church Keep Its Identity Through Change

   May 18, 2026       john

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Tom and John talk about pastoral transition, church identity, interim ministry, and what happens when a longtime pastor moves on. What parts of ministry truly last? What belongs to one leader, and what becomes part of the life of a church? 

It’s a thoughtful conversation about leadership, influence, community, and trusting God through change.

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Faith, Blisters, & Walking It Out

   April 22, 2026       john

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We talk a lot in church about “the journey.” Wade decided to actually take one.

This week, we sit down with Jeana Martin—counselor, spiritual director, and pilgrimage guide—to talk about what happens when faith gets out of your head and into your body.

Along the way, we talk about:

– Why people go on pilgrimage – What walking does to your soul – The difference between talking about growth and actually living it – How trauma, faith, and the body are more connected than we think

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Say It Better, Not Louder

   April 14, 2026       john

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Why doesn’t anyone remember church announcements? In this episode, we sit down with Amanda Banda to talk about the real problem with church communication, and it’s not what you think. From bulletins to social media, we explore why information alone doesn’t stick, and how storytelling can completely change the way people engage with your church. 
We also talk about: 
  • Why authenticity matters more than production quality 
  • How to tell stories in everyday moments 
  • What people actually remember (and why)

Why doesn’t anyone remember church announcements?





In this episode, we sit down with Amanda Banda to talk about the real problem with church communication, and it’s not what you think. From bulletins to social media, we explore why information alone doesn’t stick, and how storytelling can completely change the way people engage with your church. We also talk about: +Why authenticity matters more than production quality +How to tell stories in everyday moments +What people actually remember (and why) E167

  

Can you dig it?

   April 07, 2026       john

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Hundreds of people showed up to a beach… just to dig holes...and then fill them back in.

It sounds pointless. But what if it’s not?

In this episode, we wrestle with why something so simple can feel so meaningful. Along the way, we ask some deeper questions:

  • Are we too obsessed with productivity, even in the church?
  • What if people don’t need better programs… just better connection?
  • And why do we feel so alone… even when we’re surrounded by people?

Because maybe the hole isn’t the point. Maybe the hunger underneath it is.

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Would you trust a chatbot with your soul?

   March 27, 2026       john

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Millions of people are turning to AI for prayer, guidance, and even spiritual direction. But what does that mean for real faith? 

This week, we wrestle with a growing trend highlighted in a Relevant Magazine article: Christians using chatbots as spiritual companions. Because here’s the deeper issue: spiritual growth has always been formed in community, not isolation. And while a chatbot might respond instantly, it can’t bear your burdens, challenge your blind spots, or walk with you through real life. 

So what do we do with a technology that feels personal, helpful… and maybe a little too convincing?

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Beginning, Ending, and Letting Ministries Go

   January 13, 2026       john

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After a long pause, John and Tom return to talk honestly about why the podcast went quiet, and why they’re still here. From there, the conversation turns toward one of the hardest realities of church leadership: knowing when to begin a ministry and when it’s time to let one end. 

Let's explore joy, lament, pruning, and what it means to say “well done” to ministries that have faithfully served their season.

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Death and Resurrection of an Urban Church




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This counts as an episode

   October 30, 2025       john

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Guess who’s back? Okay, almost back. John takes the mic solo for this “resurrection episode.” He updates listeners on Tom’s vacation life, Joseph’s two-church life, and his own pastor projects, while joking about coffee, fried chicken, and introvert pastors. Come laugh, reflect, and get ready for what’s next!

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Monday matters to God

   August 28, 2025       john

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John, Tom, and Joseph talk about why Monday matters to God and how we can find God’s purpose in our everyday work. They remind us that faith is not limited to Sundays—God shows up in cubicles, classrooms, construction sites and everywhere else we work. If you’ve ever wondered how your daily grind connects to God’s bigger plan, this conversation will inspire you to see your work as holy and meaningful.

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Ministry with a side of criticism

   August 06, 2025       john

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Ever gotten a “helpful” comment that didn’t feel very helpful? Joseph and John dive into the difference between critique and criticism, and how to not lose your mind (or your calling) when people come for your sermons, your songs or your leadership style.
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